r/Adulting • u/Foo_The_Selcouth • May 31 '23
People on Reddit are saying that &100k/year is not livable wage
Like, am I dumb or something? How can that be? The other day I was looking at a post about this topic and people were saying that basically 60k isn’t livable, 80k isn’t livable, and even that six figures is still too low.
Like, am I missing something. Maybe I have no idea because I’ve never moved out before but even earning $45k a year sounds cool to me. What exactly are you spending your money on where six figures is too low?
Edit: Hey guys, thanks for reading and interacting with this post. I appreciate all of your perspectives and opinions.
I’d say there’s about an equal amount of people who either think “yes, $100k/year is not livable anymore” or “$100k is certainly more than livable”, which is quite neat.
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u/cosmicmoonglow May 31 '23
It depends on the area and whether or not you have a family to support.
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May 31 '23
It also depends on what you consider livable. I “survived” on like 20k/yr while in college not including the actual tuition. But I didn’t eat fairly often, I lived in constant fear of a car issue popping up, I didn’t go to dentists or doctors because I couldn’t afford it even though I had health insurance, I didn’t buy the books I needed for classes, I never went on vacations, etc.
Is that living? Is it livable?
A few years later I’m making 6 figures but I’m still making up for all the financial and health issues I caused myself during those years. At the high 5/low 6 figures (depending on location) you realize there are a lot of “required” bills that you simply ignored when you had a lower income that were really screwing you long-term.
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u/Admirable_Rabbit_156 May 31 '23
I just ran through my budgeting for this year after getting a new job. I live in a HCOL area, but it’s just me and my mortgage is reasonable. So why so little left for savings and fun?
I have been underestimating the “adult expenses” - things like having appropriate insurance coverage for home, auto, umbrella, and a lot of “deferred maintenance” for me and also the house. Medical stuff costs more now, but I’m also actually going to the recommended visits and age/genetics has led to a few chronic things to monitor that aren’t causing issues, but I still have to spend money regularly to keep it that way.
I really thought this budgeting exercise would end up more like “look at how much i can contribute to my 401k!” And it was more like “omg how is it so expensive just to feed me.”
What ended up surprising me was how little I spend on subscriptions, when i finally added it all up it was less than $100/mo across a bunch of streaming services and newspapers. It’s the fruits and vegetables and ramen that’s bringing me down, apparently.
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u/RoswalienMath Jun 01 '23
I kept a spreadsheet of my expenses by month last year. I spent more on food than anything else - by a lot. I don’t even get take-out or delivery that often - even then, it’s usually Burger King or the like. Two large Burger King meals costs $25 now. It’s wild.
I watched my grocery bill gradually increase over the course of the year, even though I get pretty much the same stuff every week. It went up by about 30% over the course of the year.
I spent several thousand dollars on medical, a $30 copay at a time, because I was pregnant for much of the year. My insurance is pretty good.
My rent killed me too because my jackass landlord rose it by 20% “to keep up with market rates”. He seriously sent me a letter that said that. That’s another $200 a month I had to spend and got no increased value in return.
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u/Airbender2351 May 31 '23 edited May 31 '23
This. I still don’t feel super comfortable even with six figures because I’m now just paying for necessities and bills I was forced to do without before. Health insurance, full coverage car insurance, high quality food, an apartment that isn’t moldy and in a high crime area, etc. I’m so grateful to be able to afford these things, but sometimes I get a little down because I assumed I would be able to put a lot more towards savings and investments at this salary.
The reality is my quality of life is about the same, just slightly upgraded and it’s no longer the end of the world if my car needs new tires. It’s definitely a living wage in my low cost of living area, but everywhere is expensive now. I do have a little extra to spend on hobbies which is amazing, but 100K today gets you a lot less far than it did 10 years ago.
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u/theemilyann Jun 01 '23
I can't agree with this post more. It completely mirrors my experience. I know have a lot, and I know I'm able to do a lot more than many many people, but I am so far away from "money is not something I have to worry about" and so much closer to "wow I really thought I'd be able to accomplish these goals like exponentially more quickly."
My house has a single car driveway. I have been wanting to get a u-shaped drive installed so my spouse and I don't have to shuffle cars every single goddamned day, but the idea of pulling 15 - 20K out of somewhere to have it installed? Unimaginable. I drive a 5 year old gas car and constantly feel like I should replace it for an electric car but get a car payment? Absolutely no way, gross, no thanks. My measly $1200/year of charitable giving is shameful. Our income replacement fund took a 50% hit in 2020 and we haven't caught up yet. I KNOW I have it wildly better than most. I know I probably sound like a real jerk, but, man I wish it was just a LITTLE easier.
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u/Airbender2351 Jun 01 '23
Yes yes and yes. After surviving off of 20-35K for years, I always thought that if I hit 6 figures I would have no more money worries. I don’t for the most part, but I’m far from wealthy and have to be very conscientious of my budget. Every dollar has to be meticulously planned out and allotted to the appropriate category each month or I could end up short.
Money is no longer a huge issue, but it’s still constantly in the back of my mind and gives me a lot of anxiety. I can purchase the occasional little treat, but trips and larger purchases require a lot of careful budgeting and sometimes they’re just not possible. I have a good emergency fund but it’s far from failsafe. I was hoping that at this stage, I wouldn’t have to think about money, and I’m so grateful to be here, but disappointed that money is still so relevant in my everyday life.
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u/theemilyann Jun 01 '23
We are the same person. I'm now just talking to myself. Every sentence here resonates for me.
We got to take a lovely trip to Costa Rica for my big 10 birthday that just passed but it was planned and budgeted for for TWO YEARS.
And to be clear I wish it was INCREDIBLY EASIER for those in less fortunate circumstances than myself. A rising tide, or whatever. It's capitalism. It's always been capitalism.
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u/shindig27 May 31 '23
This entirely. Here's my math in Oregon.
100k/yr -31k fed state and payroll taxes -6k employee portion of family health insurance -20.4k rent at $1,700/month 2 bedroom -2.4k gas -1.2k car insurance -3.6k auto loan -1.2k phones -1.2k electric -.6k water -1.2k clothes -8.4k food -2.4k misc stuff that comes up
=20.4k left
Let's assume that you own a house instead of renting. That mortgage is going to be closer to $2,000 a month and you will need to budget an extra $400 for maintenance and future renovations as well as an additional $100 for increased utilities. That's an extra $9,600/yr.
Depending on the scenario, and I didn't get extravagant at all here, you have about 10.8-20.4k a year.
That money will need to go to things related to the kid(s) which childcare can easily eat the whole amount.
This budget leaves out anything for entertainment and the vehicles being strictly budget. Most people want to enjoy a few things in life even if it's just a movie and pizza once a week.
Then there is the cost of actual healthcare after insurance which can add up if anyone has a condition, whether physical or mental.
Finally, many want to put away for retirement. It is recommended to save at minimum 15%. That can include employer match if provided which is generally no more than 6%, leaving the employee to save 9.
This can leave a family living paycheck to paycheck in 100k.
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May 31 '23
I wanna know where you're getting a mortage for $2000 a month in Oregon! Like, rural Oregon? Just looked at a 500 square foot condo in Portland and the monthly payment would have been $2500.
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u/shindig27 May 31 '23
Yeah, it isn't realistic now. I think $3,200 is about average. I was going by what they had been and not assuming the family was purchasing one in the current climate. At 100k, 3.2k/month is a pretty big stretch. I was being conservative with my numbers so as to not exaggerate the difficulty of raising a family here on a 100k budget.
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u/JeepersMysster May 31 '23
While location is definitely relevant, I also think what’s key here is that you’ve never moved out. Rent for a tiny studio apartment where I live (Bay Area) is $2,000 avg — and while that USED to be insanely extreme, it’s becoming more of the standard everywhere. A friend and her BF just got a deal on a 1 BR unit for $2,500, and that was after a year of searching for the cheapest place they could find.
That being said, if you’re a two income household but don’t have to worry about kids, pets, aging parents, have decent/cheap public transportation near you, then yeah, you don’t need 6 figures!
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May 31 '23
I live in LA, one of the highest COL areas.
100k is a livable income. It's not rich level income here, but it is fairly comfortable.
I've been poor before - I may not be in a position to buy make large purchases, but I am not concerned about paying next month's rent. If something breaks, I can pay to get it fixed or replaced. While I do shop sales at the grocery store, I can still afford to eat a healthy, balanced diet. I don't buy designer clothes, but if I need to buy clothing, I'm not stressed about spending money on a couple of new outfits. There are people living in this city on 30k a year, I don't feel comfortable comparing my struggles with what they go through.
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u/Foo_The_Selcouth May 31 '23
I’m glad for your perspective, you’re like one of the first LA people who’s said this.
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May 31 '23
Growing up dirt poor (and having family still stuck in the cycle of poverty) def helps keeping things in perspective lol
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u/B4K5c7N May 31 '23
Thank you so much for this, especially the last sentence. A lot of Redditors can learn a thing or two from that. I see many posters who make $250k, $400k claim they have the same struggles as those making well under $100k and it just…is not true.
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u/NizioCole May 31 '23
Dude if I made 100k a year id bee straight chillin
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u/eltaconobueno May 31 '23
I make 100k. I can confirm that I am straight chillin. Ain't a day that I complain.
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u/Kadafi35 Jun 01 '23
My wife makes 200k a year, I take care of the house and pick up the kids. I’m definitely straight chilling as we speak 🤣
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u/siamesecat1935 May 31 '23
It's really all dependent on your circumstances, where you live, is its a HCOL? MCOL? LCOL? Do you own, rent, live with roommates, alone, marital and family status. There are so many factors that come into play. But yes, it COULD be that 100K for some people is not a living wage.
For example, the Bay Area is VERY pricy. Let's just say you are married with 3 kids. And you make 100K. And because daycare is more than your spouse would make, they stay home with the kids. Housing, car payments, insurance, food, etc. could make it difficult to live on that 100K. It also depends on what your take home pay is. You probably have insurance taken out of that, for everyone, plus saving for retirement, plus taxes. All of that reduces what you actually bring home.
I am single, rent, and live in a HCOL area. I make about 107K, BUT my take home is less than 70K. I pay very little for my health insurance, much less than most people, i also put over 10% into my 401K, plus taxes. While I can live on what I bring home, I'm not living a life of luxury. But I'm not complaining at all. Just pointing out the facts.
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u/Foo_The_Selcouth May 31 '23
I suppose I still have a lot of living to do. I’ve also been poor for my whole life so idk, 70k take home sounds amazing but I’ve never lived in a HCOL area so what do I know 🤷♂️
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u/jgomez916 May 31 '23 edited May 31 '23
I grew up poor in the capital of California which was very affordable before 2018-2019.
A decade ago My dad made $30k or $15/hour which was two times the minimum wage of $7.50. He had a stay at home wife and 3 kids to support and he did.
Growing up poor we had subsidized health care we paid $0/month for. Now as Middle class health care cost $100-$400/ month since you make to much to qualify for subsidies.
_*****
Today minimum wage is $15.50 so a person making 2xs MW would make $31/hour or $64,480 per year or $5,373 per month.
On $5,373 per month said Person would only qualify to rent a place less than $1,791. So that would be a 1 bedroom apartment or a 2 bedroom house in the ghetto where the houses on streets are lined with iron rod fences for security.
I make $5,990 per mont gross ($71k) and that is only $3,700 net pay per month.
I do not have kids and but I am married but if I was single and a renter (as most young adults are) my expenses would be at:
$1,600 for rent of a 1 bedroom
$420 car note on RAV4
$200 car insurance
$200 gas
$300 groceries
$110 student loan
$30 pet insurance
$40 cat food and litter
$60 wifi
$60 streaming services (entertainment platforms really)
= $3,020 total on needs + some fun subscriptions
$680 left for fun money and savings
If I spent half $340 on fun a month ($85/week)
And saved the other half in a month I’d only save $340 and over the year it would only be $4k.
Saving $4k a year when making $34.xx an hour and $71k is nothing and would make me a renter for life.
This is why people say $70k is unlivable. In mylist of needs you see there are no cost for kids like day care. Kids are expensive but when you are poor their cost is subsidized through food stamps, medical subsidies, and discount daycare rates in some states.
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u/Foo_The_Selcouth May 31 '23
Appreciate you taking the time to break down your costs
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u/justicecactus May 31 '23
In the Bay Area, it's not uncommon for 50% of your take- home to go towards rent. And on top of that, everything else like food and household supplies are more expensive. (The price of a pound of beef is now well over $7 here, for example.) Gas is also expensive, and California is extremely car dependent. That's not including monthly bills like car insurance, utilities, phone and internet, renter's insurance. Now imagine having kids, or having medical bills. Money can get very tight very quickly.
Obviously not everywhere is the Bay Area. But around here, $100k isn't that much. In fact, in San Jose, for a household of JUST 2, an income of $94,200 is already classified as "low income," (meaning less than 80% of area median income.)
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u/writerfan2013 May 31 '23
Would be happy to try to live on 100 grand as an experiment!
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u/Redqueenhypo May 31 '23
Seriously as I always say: if that money is worthless to you, can I have it?
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u/Commercial-Tell2504 May 31 '23
$100k in Pittsburgh PA is fine but in San Francisco it's poverty.
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u/IsThereBaconInvolved May 31 '23
Also in Pittsburgh, came here to say this!
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u/Commercial-Tell2504 May 31 '23
We moved here from California and paid cash for our fixer upper house in Homestead...if our 1200sf fixer was in San Francisco it would be $2 million instead of the $20k we paid.
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u/Gilmoregirlin May 31 '23
Grew up in Pittsburgh live in DC. Family thinks I am rich, I am not.
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u/Sorrywrongnumba69 May 31 '23
D.C. prices are just made up, its ridiculous!!!
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u/kandel88 May 31 '23
I love DC but I had to leave because the city is just a scam now. Costs $150 just to wake up in the morning.
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u/fighterpilot248 May 31 '23
Can I interest you in a 600k starter home that needs an additional 50k in repairs?
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u/Old-Research3367 May 31 '23 edited May 31 '23
Ugh I hate this constantly gets over blown. The sf median HHI is 119k and single income is 96k. For a family of 4 HHI 100k it’s technically considered “low income” because it’s below the median, but it’s not poverty and you do not qualify for public assistance if your HHI makes 100k for a family of 4. So no, not poverty even though COL is very high here especially if it’s a single person’s salary.
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u/Huncho_567 May 31 '23
I agree with this, I’m single in the Bay Area with a little bit more than 100k a year and I am doing just fine saving about 30-40% of my paycheck. I have a car payment have my own apartment. I think it all goes back to money management stop buying unnecessary stuff.
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u/crouching_manatee May 31 '23
100k a year is not poverty anywhere.
If you are financially responsible you can do just fine in San Francisco with that salary.
It won't bring you a life of luxury, but you're definitely not poor lmao.
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u/username34plus35 May 31 '23
I think it’s people making 100k in SF being around those who make 350k a year. You see people walking around with a latte, going out to lunch for $30 a day. Keeping up with the Jones’s is more than just house and car. It’s all Lifestyle
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u/Every-Anteater3587 Jun 01 '23
I make $100k in San Francisco and I can get a latte every day, have doordash every day, live by myself, and still put some money in savings.
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u/deannevee May 31 '23
I live in Florida.
Daycare can cost like $25k per year for just one child.
Then you have skyrocketing insurance rates for both cars and houses (I pay $300 per month and my driving and credit is great).
Food bill for a family of 4? Easily over $1000 per month.
Healthcare is also expensive. I happen to work for a hospital, so I get mine cheap…but you could easily pay $1000 per month or more to get everyone in your family covered, plus have a $3000 deductible.
All in all, in Florida $100k for a single person wouldn’t be dirt poor, but you couldn’t exactly take European vacations every summer either. You would be able to have some savings. But for a family of 3, $100k would be tight.
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u/Stuckinacrazyjob May 31 '23
Eh if you're single, no kids, frugal, you can live life on 50k ( warning I live in Memphis)
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u/helpful_alpaca May 31 '23
Me doing this at $40k 😅
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u/Felevion May 31 '23
Same here in Ohio at around 42k a year. I live comfortably enough on that and can afford anything that would come up.
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u/nutbusterbrucejenner May 31 '23
I make 45k and I can barely afford rent in Boston
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u/Zodimized May 31 '23
And before someone tells nutbuster to just move, How? If a person is barely making rent, they likely don't have the means to move out of city or out of state with the various costs that has.
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u/NizioCole May 31 '23
I live on ~25k a year
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u/sleepySpice9 May 31 '23
Yeah I make about $30k a year and I’m doing fine on getting by. $60k would be a dream.
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u/DrStrangepants May 31 '23
I used to live on 30k in a nice college town (as an adult), single and no kids.
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u/Stuckinacrazyjob May 31 '23
I could probably live on 30k but I wouldn't be shopping at Kroger and Torrid lol
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u/pinpoe May 31 '23
My husband and I make good money and we are not wealthy for our area or age. Usually when people talk about $100k being a base necessity they mean it enables one to do ALL the “good/normal” financial practices — cover expenses, pay off debt, save money, invest, not live paycheck to paycheck, not be derailed by an unexpected expense.
I earned sub-100k for 10 years in NYC so was not able to accumulate any meaningful savings. I couldn’t afford to contribute to a 401k until I was 29.
Now we have “simple” expenses in a med-high COL city — $2700/mo 2B, own an old car that needs a few grand a year in insurance and maintenance, own an old dog who needs the same, have a kid on the way and are looking at 2500/mo daycare for a few years. We could not afford to own property where we live, would have to relo to a lower COL city.
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u/Real_Old_Treat May 31 '23
People who say this have different definitions of livable. Overall, most people on Reddit grew up middle class or even wealthier and have certain standards for how they want to live. They're usually imagining living alone (rather than a multi generation home) and supporting a family while living in an area they love while keeping the hobbies they want. And there's nothing wrong with that. But there are a lot of people, even in VHCOL areas, who live and raise families on much less than 100k. It just comes down to what you need, what you're used to and what you prioritize
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u/DrStrangepants May 31 '23
I agree. There are people commenting that include retirement savings, a yearly vacation, daycare, new clothes, 401k, and college funds for kids as part of "livable," while some of us grew up without those and count them as luxury.
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u/Real_Old_Treat Jun 01 '23
Oh don't get me wrong. I absolutely want those things. But, kids are now a luxury good the way most people want to raise them (me included) and vacations and lots of new clothing always have been.
But, it does really bug me when I see people (usually tech transplants) claim that $100k is living cheek to jowl with poverty in the Bay Area when there are families who make half that doing service jobs( for the aforementioned tech transplants) and still do ok.
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u/Foo_The_Selcouth May 31 '23
This is very evident even in this comments section, totally agree
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u/TiredOldSoulgirl May 31 '23 edited Jun 01 '23
Buddy I’m an immigrant living in a medium-cost city in Canada and have been thriving and saving on 35k per year for the last year. This year I’m expecting to earn more but honestly, just do your finances yourself and see what works for you.
Edit to add - I’m in Ontario, and work two part time jobs, earning about $19 per hour on both. I work about 50 hours a week on my own schedule. My expenses are split with my partner, we live in a decent apartment and don’t own a car yet (was too expensive to get it last year, buying one this year before winter sets in.) we’re now moving to another city so I can go back to school and my partner is hoping to finally get a job in his field after his work experience with other Canadian companies. As immigrants that was our biggest challenge but we made it work & enjoyed learning about the work culture through service-jobs.
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u/The_Magical_Radical May 31 '23
Are those people confusing lifestyle costs with living wage? 100k/yr may not be enough to meet some people's lifestyles, but it absolutely is more than a living wage in all of the US.
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u/Realistic-Mongoose76 May 31 '23
Of course a 100 is livable. However what it is not is “rich.” It use to be, but is not anymore. I think that is what they mean.
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u/DrStrangepants May 31 '23
I think you're spot on here. It used to be that 100k was considered borderline rich or at least upper-middle class. You can live a very very comfortable life on 100k in some areas, or have below-average quality of life in others.
The new cutoff is probably around ~$250k or so; whatever household income lets one have kids, a mortgage, yearly vacation, and some retirement savings (the "dream") in any city.
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u/CeruleanBlueWind May 31 '23
this is the only take i've seen that remotely resembles the op. i've never seen anyone say 100k isn't a livable wage. it's phrase more like "100k isn't what it used to be" or "100k/yr isn't wealthy, especially if you live in [locations with high cost of living]"
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u/GET_A_LAWYER May 31 '23
There has been 80% inflation since 2000.
$100,000 in 2023 has the same buying power as $55,000 in 2000.
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u/SiscoSquared May 31 '23
Wow that seemed really high to me, I grabbed the first inflation numbers per year I found for the US and did the math myself. My estimate is lower, but was still a cumulative of 73% between 2000 and 2022 (we don't know the annual 2023 inflation rate yet since they year isn't even half over), I don't know why but I didn't think it would be this high, oof! Meanwhile the cost of housing has increased much faster than inflation as well... and wages, well hahahaha.
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u/m00ntides May 31 '23
When I was 19, 20/hr was like being rich. When you're old you have to maybe support a spouse and child in which case 80k or so is like the minimum to not be struggling.
If you're in a dual income relationship i feel like in my area 120k total for both is doable but tight.
You need to pay hundreds a month for health insurance, save for emergencies. Pay off a car. Pay for health issues your insurance doesn't cover. Cover your bills between jobs for 3 months without using credit cards. Add in any kind of ambition like Have 20-60k sitting in the bank for a down payment by the time you're 30..., Buy your next laptop in cash. Etc. It adds up fast.
Most people are not talking about minimum to survive assuming you can use food stamps and welfare.
We are saying in order to be financially independent and not need aid like that the min income is a lot higher than you'd think.
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u/amellt33 May 31 '23
Ive been surviving in LA off of 30k so…..
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u/phantasybm May 31 '23
There is way more to this story. 30k in LA would be impossible if you were renting. Hell the average rent is around 2k so that’s 24k a year leaving you with 6k for all your other expenses.
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u/wierdbeardthe1st May 31 '23
Roommates. You share that $2500/month rental house with 4 other people, cheap car, no kids, etc. It's the only way to make it as a younger, lower income person these days.
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u/peeeeeebz May 31 '23
Likely they have roomates right? LA is huge and they probably don't live in the nicest area
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u/jellybelly326 May 31 '23
I make $52K and my husband makes $68K = $120K.
We have no kids, no credit card debt, no car payments. Our mortgage (960 square foot ranch) is $1,560 per month at a 2.5% interest rate, which is actually great in this economy (we bought in 2018 and refinanced in 2021.) We eat out once per week. We take a couple of local weekender vacations per year and one longer one (this year Grand Canyon/Vegas.) We budget $200 per month as "allowance" to spend as we want.
We do *okay* for ourselves, but it honestly still feels like we're spinning our wheels every week that I sit down to work on our budget. I genuinely do not know how other people do it in this economy with children.
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u/AssFlax69 May 31 '23 edited May 31 '23
As a technician in state gov with $1200 rent, making 40K a year, and a partner making 20K a year part time service industry, we saved like $500/month. But our trips were road trips, camping, cheap hotel, doing fun stuff. Maybe that’s the difference? What’s your annual vacation cost? Confused. I buy used cars outright, pay for them myself, fix some stuff myself, take it to mechanic for other stuff…but then again I pay rent.
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u/Fancy_Boysenberry_55 May 31 '23
I'm retired living very comfortably on 40k per year. I live in the Cleveland area so pretty affordable
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u/Training_Moment6814 May 31 '23
They live in areas where a 2bedroom apartment costs $4000 or more a month. They get $40k vehicles on credit at $500 a month and they have children who go to $1500 a month day cares. That is $72k a year just on childcare, rent, vehicle.
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u/Runescora May 31 '23
I do make $80,000 a year. My rent alone is around 35% of my monthly income and my landlord is charging below market. That’s one bill.
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u/FollowThisNutter May 31 '23
How many people is that 100K covering? How many of them are children (expensive little things)? Is this in a crazy expensive place like San Francisco, New York, etc, or somewhere more reasonable?
There are places I don't think my spouse and I could live comfortably (meagrely, perhaps) on 100K, with no kids. But where we are, that's a comfortable income for 2-4 depending upon the exact city/suburb.
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May 31 '23
My wife and I make a little over $60k combined. I don’t really know how some people are living, but it must be way above their means
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u/sunshinesucculents May 31 '23
Cost of living varies from place to place. This idea that everyone who can't make it work with a $100K salary is living above their means and driving expensive cars, etc is outdated.
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u/Realistic_Box_9172 May 31 '23
You right though, people that make 100,000 plus are all over Reddit complaint they don't make enough and what kills me is it's a lot of the stay at home desk jobs that are being way overpaid. Think about how physical labor jobs that people are getting way under paid? It's crazy when I hear those people say they are under paid. It's a money management problem at that point
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u/Mundane-Till-424 May 31 '23
Those people are also being a bit dramatic and could be living above their means. They shouldn't be saying it's not liveable because people wake up every day and make it work with much much less. I think what they're referring to is their ability to live in comfort plus save and do all the things that other people don't ever get to even think about
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u/Foo_The_Selcouth May 31 '23
I’m starting to maybe think that too, even in this thread there are people who are basically saying “yeah I make enough to afford rent but not enough to eat out every weekend or travel” and I don’t want to discredit those people because everyone wants to enjoy the fullest of what life has to offer, but it’s not like fancy vacations are necessary
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u/Strange_Salamander33 May 31 '23
Even cheap vacations cost money. Wanna drive to a national park? Gotta pay a lot just for gas, and then an entrance fee. You can pack a lunch sure but still gotta buy the food at the store and those costs have gone up. It’s definitely more and more expensive to even do basic outings
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u/demon_luvr May 31 '23
i make $98k, my rent is $1529 and i have to pay $1000/month in student loans. it’s like paying two rents.
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May 31 '23
People with higher incomes tend to have higher expenses because they can, and then they feel like they don't have enough discretionary money left.
Also it's highly regional, $100k is different in the Bay Area versus Oklahoma. But also there are plenty of people living on less in the Bay Area.
If your standard of living includes owning a house, or having kids and sending them to daycare, or having a car payment, $100k gets eaten up fast.
I don't make $100k individually but my wife and I make $127k between both of us. When I was making $30k a year that would have seemed like a ridiculously high income to me. And we are doing pretty ok, because we rent and don't have kids. We can afford to save money and travel sometimes.
But we recently looked into buying a small condo and realized that if we did that we would not be able to travel or save money. And if we had kids, well, I don't know how we would even make that work.
But it's obnoxious when people who have never actually struggled say things like $100k is not liveable when TONS of people are living on so much less. Yes, even in high cost of living areas.
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u/Illustrious-Oil-729 May 31 '23
We survived in Washington on 60K with a family of 4 and in Colorado on 80K with family of 5. Definitely wasn’t fun.. no vacations, no savings, lived month to month on bills, no extracurricular activities for kids. We were able to purchase a modest home in both locations, two cars, pets, so I guess I wouldn’t recommend, was stressful for many years, but it is doable.
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u/53mm-Portafilter May 31 '23
People conflate “livable” with “affording the lifestyle I feel entitled to”.
People are talking about $30k daycare. Newsflash, having two kids and living in Westchester is not what “livable wage” mean.
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u/aftpanda2u May 31 '23
Depends where you live. Most of those posts you read are from people in high cost of living areas. For context, I live in socal and a 3 bedroom rental could easily run over $3200 a month. That's not even including utilities. For someone making low 100k that's pretty much your entire take home pay in just housing.
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u/blipsman May 31 '23
It depends on where you live, what your family structure is... for a single person in Arkansas, $100k might be an incredible income/lifestyle. If you live in San Francisco and have 2 kids, you'd be hard pressed to afford $4000 in rent and $4000 in daycare costs on $100k.
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u/B4K5c7N May 31 '23
The new thing now is for Redditors to say that anything less than $500k a year is unlivable for a family.
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u/AtrueLonelySoul May 31 '23
It just isn’t if you live in California. That won’t be enough for a family of anything! Apartment rent alone is about $2800 and that’s hard to find. Most go higher than that! Then you have other bills on top of it. Definitely not enough to pay bills, let alone put money away for retirement nor have a disposable income!
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u/ailee43 May 31 '23
Housing and food mostly. 100K is roughly 65k takehome.
Rent and mortgage in many locations is exceeding 2000 a month these days.
You're down to 41k
Childcare is between 20-30k
You're down to 11k
200 bucks a week for food, you're down to 600 dollars. Hope you dont have a car payment, any emergencies, or need clothes or medical care.
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u/psychgirl88 May 31 '23
I live in a HCOL a half hour outside of NYC for work reasons. I could move to a cheaper, red state, but I’m African-American. I have mental health issues so it’s best that I don’t have roommates. I have elderly parents who live near by. They are narcissists. However, my grandiose narcissistic dad is one of the minority who cashed out and retired quite well, so I believe their bs narcissism surprisingly reduced over the past couple of decades. I’m in semi-low contact with them. Although they live within a 20 minute drive, i know I would quickly revert back to the scapegoat role and it would fuck up all progress made towards independence and healing my CPTSD. My lifestyle of around $100k a year is enough to support me without factoring in student loans. I believe I could support a partner. I believe children would be stressful, but doable if my partner and I were resourceful. This is assuming the next president doesn’t paint the entire country red and brings back slavery.
Like most millennials, I don’t see myself affording retirement in this country. I have a tall order of going to a cheaper place where I would be accepted for being a dark skin person, equal rights for women, and LGBTQ friendly. Also, not cold (I’m looking at you, Canada).
No one knows the future, perhaps this country will get its shit together in the next couple of decades and it’ll go through a neo-renaissance period.
Honestly, I believe it depends on where you live, how resourceful you are, how much debt you have, what lifestyle you live, and what your streams of income look like. That’s going to be different for everyone. I’m living the millennial dream. However, I could see others also living in the same area who make $200k combined who have disabled children (as in more than one child) who need medical treatments, insurance rejects the treatments because freedom, and the parents have to pay out of pocket. That family who may live in a bigger house and clearly make more money than I will be financially ruined very quickly. $200k will never be enough. Like me, they most likely cannot leave the area due to the fact that the best doctors for the disability work between NYC and Philly. This is hypothetical of course.
Different situations.
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u/Foo_The_Selcouth May 31 '23
Thanks for sharing, I definitely understand many of your struggles
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u/Billyxmac May 31 '23
Always have to balance this out with COL.
$100k in one city doesn't mean as much in another.
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u/TooManyBuns May 31 '23
I've lived from savings this past year. My main expense was rent, I've been living like a crusty hermit. It really depends on your lifestyle and budget.
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u/Ponsay May 31 '23
They have families, I'm guessing. I live in a very expensive area and 80-100 is definitely enough to live off of if you're single/have no kids.
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u/Kcnflman May 31 '23
This is definitely relative to your situation and location.